My brother thinks/recommends that I should expound a little on my previous entry. It is a good idea so I will make a half effort

Lets see if I have enough ambition to because there is a tremendous amount of information required and available to do so. I'm quite sure that if I had the inclination to I would indeed have a book just on this one set of verses.

I intend to stick to generalities that most know and let them agree or disagree where they will.

Perhaps it is out of laziness but also it gives the vast majority of people a chance see and understand what I am seeing.

I also have come to the belief that to know that we are in a forest we need to step back first and take a broader view. Many times people don't just examine a tree but put a microscope to a piece of bark trying to determine if they are in a forest or not. They then conclude that we are in a pine forest when in fact we are in a deciduous forest. That is to say there are many types of trees of varying heights and widths each one contributing to the overall appearance and environment of that particular forest. (I am not talking about the environment specifically). Another thing people are trying to do is to say that a specific tree is the original tree in the forest when in fact it is most likely a group of trees that started out together. Another interesting phenomenon is when people look at the same tree and call it different names. Oh yeah here is the one where people take all the bark off a tree and try to make a tree out of it. Funny thing the bark never quite fits right no matter how they glue it back together. Yet another thing that occurs is when they look at the same tree but from different directions and describe in quite good detail and then declare positively the description they have is the one and the only correct description. What it is, is a two dimensional description and incomplete. All they had to do was walk around the tree and take a look at it from the last angle. Until they do they will never be able to see it completely.
What angle is that final angle. Gods point of view by Jesus Christ, and since they can't get that angle except to say the words Jesus save me, then they will never quite get it will they.



One other thing. I am not speaking against taking a closer look at things we just need to know that we are entering a forest and that we have a way to go before get through it and mankind is going to be taken to the broken point (I mean broken, breaking is in process-broken is a done deal). Man will be broken. It is not my or any other man's job to break men. It is my job to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So here goes.

Dan 8:3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last

Question asked is who is the Ram. In the words of the commander of a klingon j'eq eng, class vessel(probably spelled that wrong), just a bit further is a complete description of the vision.

Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

Dan 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be

Hey what do you know a time line. Not the end; look at the last part of sentence it says: for at the time appointed the end shall be, ie. the end is not now: to the previous subjected part of the sentence. In other words there is a period of time where there is a lot of indignation: close but not the end. Sound familiar? Indignation from around the world. About what? You name it, people huffy about this or about that.


Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

So the ram is out of the middle east specifically the ancient Medo-Persian empire. Where is the Mead empire and where is the Persian empire. Iran generally-though the old empire was somewhat bigger.

Those two horns are the Medo-Persian kings. I Have been reading a little of ancient history and the one thing that never ceases to facinate me is how were these old kingdoms operated. I noticed that in a lot of these empires especially the ones where there was a whole lot of conquering going on that the conquering nation would set up vassel kingdoms conferring on the rulers selected titles such king. These men were given powers like unto a king and were kings in thier own right but for the purpose of governing the areas acquired for the original conquering nation.
That two kingdoms would ally themselves or even merge by a less that violent method would not be unheard of.
Another point I want to bring up is a descripion in general of a ram. It has four legs, a torso a neck and a head. On this head it has two horns. The horns are not detached from the body but go wherever the body goes via the rams mind.
The horns are we suppose a form of defense and decorations in the sense that they attract a mate.
Let us take a look at the middle east. AT this time we have been after two main antagonists, one we know for a fact that pulled off the most incredible feat of destroying a pair of some of the largest buildings in the world. The other a man who was incessantly in pursuit of (in my opinion) world domination. The first man was Osuma Bin Laden who wasn't always in the picture yet Bin Laden arrived on the scene a few years after and had not gotten our attention until his first real attemp on the world trade center. He came into full recognition after the attack on the USA and by then it came to the rest of the worlds attention that he had not just a network of people but a huge network of men who were willing to die for thier cause.
The second man was Saddam Hussein whom had been around for twenty five-thirty years depending on which news network you listen to, was first recognized as the leader of Iraq,which by the way is the basic geographic region of the Babylonian empire. Also when Babylon was conquered by the Meads and Persians the seat of power in the Medo-Persia empire.I need to go find a map and if I can link you all to it I will.

Dan 8:4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no, beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand;, but he did according to his will, and became great.

Muslims spreading north, south, and west. A great deal of subliminal and not so subliminal hints of old medo-persian empire abounds both in the western world Africa and Russia, but the Muslims are not having a whole lot of success moving east it's as if the Far Eastern peoples aren't buying the Muslim mantra. Amazingly as irritating as the Ram has been and lacking in skills as far as any negotiating is concerned; only making demands in fact, no one has had any key as to how to solve any of the bewildering array of problems presented by that incorrigible group of peoples. Neither was their any that could deliver out of his hand.

But he did according to his will, and became great. That's not an understatement. They became in many ways a force to be reckoned with. But as we shall soon see not unbeatable.

Dan 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, a he goat, came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Hmmm. Flying Goat with one horn. Reminds me of a one eyed one horned flying purple people eater. Never touched the ground huh. I wonder how that goat flew.
Curious.
Lets go back to the time line. Time of the end not quite here yet. Must be talking about what?, today maybe. We aint in the tribulation but virtually to a person every Christian I have talked with believes that we are close but also that we are not there yet. Soooo. We must be talking about now, today, this year and the next few years. And hey we got airplanes.

Who is this goat anyway. Just a little bit further.

Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Greece: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Now we know that there is no man whom has a title of King of Greece. Also we know that the nation of Greece does not have itself spread all over the world. What is Greece anyway I mean they are a shadow of their former empire. Well the Spartans had a King and we know that at the end(so to speak) of Ancient Greece that the Spartans were in control but where are the Spartans now? What of that old empire. I guess they will live on in our historic memories. You know live on in spirit. We kindof adapted our government after the Greecia's. In fact you might say that Democracy was resurrected. In fact you might as well say that the sun never sets on the democratic empire thanks to the USA can't ya. Hmmm. Wait a minute we are West of the Middle East. We got air transport but you know we used ships now that wouldn't qualify as not touching the ground. I think we just shipped our hardware though. That stuff isn't flesh and blood and it certainly doesn't have a spirit. I know for a fact that we sent the bulk of our military men by air. You know something. This thing is starting to look like a close fit for this scripture. We know that these incidences occur close to the end because the timeline verses say so. Here is another mystery. The rough goat is the king of Greece but the horn is the first king. Weird two kings one on the other. The horn king is broken. I wonder what that means.
First off I don't think that it is something in this day that we will know for sure for all I know it could be me (craaazy) that king. All we really have is that we did indeed fly over to the middle east and have to date done some serious stompin.

Well I suppose this could use some editing but I'm gettin tired and am ready for bed but I'm posting this anyway. (to be continued)